Supernatural Blog

Thank you to all those who entered their own personal encounters with the supernatural for the contest.  If you would like to read the completed list, please see the “Book Giveaway” post.  The winners are:  Julie Almanrode, kathleen williams, Beth Blair, Kevin Maze, Rabbi Immanuel Ben Yehudah Ha Levi (Gomez), Aik.

LGG Member Spotlight Interview

Your name, please?
Rebecca Ellen Kurtz

When did you join the LGG? How did you make the connection?
I found LGG when I was researching for a genre for my own book.  I began reading about the LGG and thought, “Wow, these are the books I would like to read.”  I didn’t even know what speculative fiction was, but finally realized that is what I was writing.  I was going between Mythic Fiction, Supernatural Thriller, Action/Adventure/Romance (what the film script was listed as), and then Amazon put it under Horror/Occult for the demons, vampires, and exorcisms.  I joined….well, definitely less than a year ago.  I’m thinking last spring.

What’s the first thing you remember that happened in the Guild?
I remembered thinking, “Wow, these people communicate a lot.”

Tell us some good things that have transpired from belonging.
Some excellent connections have been made with people who write stories like mine.  It has helped me find books to review for my blog:  Godly Goth.  It’s wonderful to know that there are others out there that enjoy and write speculative fiction.  Authors understand promotion and marketing, and some of the authors on LGG have reached out to help new authors in promoting and marketing their novels.

What’s your genre and subgenre? Why do you think that is?
Supernatural Thriller/Mythic Fiction/Romance.  Well, we have angels, demons, Nephilm and mortals caught up preparing for the final battle of Armageddon.  Raechev and Caleb (Nephilim/ brother and sister) return to their home town of Nineveh where an archaeological dig has stirred up some mysterious supernatural deaths.  They get caught up in their fallen brethren’s plans and are hunted by some mysterious archaeologists who seek out supernatural entities.
The premise of Sons of God is that the N’filim, the descendants of angels and mortals, are the basis of all world mythology.  The novel series includes Thor, Loki, Nimrod, Sekhmet, Osiris, Sokar, Mithras, Ishtar, and several more.  Of course, some serve Elohim while others plot to rebuild a strong N’filim army before the Battle of Armageddon to defeat God.  Scholars acknowledge that the Greek gods closely resemble what the Hebrews would call fallen angels living amongst and having children with mortal women.  We still hear tales of Hercules, Medusa, Thor and other half divine heros and villains who survived a great flood.  In Norse mythology, great battles were fought between the gods (fallen angels) and cannibalistic giants before a flood wiped out the giants for the humans to repopulate the earth.  Celtic mythology of the Tuatha de Danaan continues this trend and has documentation for their ancestors originally hailing from the Middle East where tales of the N’filim were first recorded.  In almost every ancient religion there are tales of angel-like/divine creatures mating with humans and/or animals to create their god-kings or a superior semi-divine race worshipped by humans.

Do you like to read the same genre as you write? What other genres interest you? Favorite authors?
Pretty much, but I also greatly enjoy romances.  Although each of my novels has some romance in it, the novel itself is not a romance.  Favorite authors include Lynn Kurland, Francine Rivers, Frank Peretti, Stephanie Meyers, and Dan Brown (not for his “facts”).  I am still searching for authors to love though now that I know where supernatural thriller authors have been hiding - LGG & Where the Map Ends.

Tell us about your published work, and where we can go to find out more.

Sons of God:  Supernatural Thriller/Mythic Fiction/Nephilim/Vampires/Romance/Messianic Judaic Author

According to the Christian Fantasy Review, when thinking of Sons of God, “one should think of Twilight, the Mummy movies or Indiana Jones full of paranormal activity. But this one has a Biblical worldview….In fact, it is a romance at heart.”
Sons of God tells the tale of a 3,000-year-old half-angelic, half-human female warrior who disguises herself as a treasure hunter for mythic items while hunting down her fallen brethren who’ve committed atrocities against mankind. But now, in the present day, some mysterious murders begin occurring at the archaeological dig at Nineveh, and she must return to face her worst mistake. The most fascinating aspect of this mythic thriller is research from the Old Testament on this supernatural race and historical accounts of these blood-drinking tribes, which introduces an alternate vampire theory. It raises the question - is this semi-supernatural race mythical or not? Sons of God has been dubbed the Da Vinci Code for Twilight, Hancock, & Indiana Jones fans.
To one Christian Barnes & Noble manager, Sons of God is a perfect gift for any teen who is being drawn into the rapidly growing genre of Twilight, House of Night, and other YA books in the horror/occult genre. Blessedly, the Sons of God series is pro-God and anti-occult. Although just getting into several B&N stores, Sons of God has already made it to the Amazon Best-Seller List several times.
If you wish to read the article based on the research found in Sons of God “Are the Hebrew N’filim the foundational element of all world mythologies and vampire lore?” please scroll to the bottom of the spotlight interview.  Other sites that have reviews, interviews, etc are also at the bottom.

What are you working on right now? How’s progress?
I’m reviewing editors’ comments for book 2, Nimrod, in the Sons of God series, and I’m writing book 4, Caleb.

What are your dreams for the future of Christian speculative fiction, and for yourself within that?
For authors to be able to write realistically.  Oftentimes, the guidelines for Christian fiction is too goody two-shoes.  It’s unrealistic, and you can’t connect with the too-perfect protagonist.

Your best writing tip?
Write with all five senses.

What else are you up to that our readers would find interesting?
I am also a screenwriter and producer.  I’ve written and produced various television shows and am awaiting feedback from one of my scripts currently in script competitions.  I just received notification today that 1636 has made it through the second judging round at CWA.  From 2000 down to 75 scripts.  I also have a couple of producers requesting the script for Aryan State which I need to finish soon, and I’m helping some Messianic rabbis organize a pastor’s convention for those wanting to know and understand more of the Hebraic roots of Christianity.

Something you reckon not many people know about you? (such as a quirky hobby or ability)
Uh, I perform exorcisms?  Also, I’m one of Elohim’s seers.

Your website or social media profile?
On the Facebook Fan Page, I give out free prizes, interesting tidbits, and sneak peeks at upcoming novels in the Sons of God series, and I really need to update my IMDB page.
Author Site:  http://www.rebeccaellenkurtz.com/index.html
Ephesus LLC Site:  http://www.ephesusmedia.com/
Supernatural Blog:  http://rebeccaellenkurtz.com/blog/
Godly Goth:  http://rebeccaellenkurtz.com/GodlyGoth/
IMDB:  http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1982238/
Twitter:  http://twitter.com/REKurtz
Myspace:  www.myspace.com/reksonsofgod
Facebook:   http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sons-of-God-Messianic-Fiction-Novel-Series/163712519464

Reviews
Sons of God by Phyllis Wheeler at The Christian Fantasy Review
http://christian-fantasy-book-reviews.com/blog/2009/04/27/sons-of-god-by-rebecca-ellen-kurtz-a-review/
Amazon Reviews:  http://www.amazon.com/Sons-God-Rebecca-Kurtz/dp/0982313500/ref=pd_rhf_p_img_1

Sons of God! What’s it about?
According to the Christian Fantasy Review, when thinking of Sons of God, “One should think of Twilight, the Mummy movies or Indiana Jones full of paranormal activity. But this one has a Biblical worldview….In fact, it is a romance at heart.”

Sons of God tells the tale of a 3,000-year-old half-angelic, half-human female warrior who disguises herself as a treasure hunter for mythic items while hunting down her fallen brethren who’ve committed atrocities against mankind. But now, in the present day, some mysterious murders begin occurring at the archaeological dig at Nineveh, and she must return to face her worst mistake. The most fascinating aspect of this mythic thriller is research from the Old Testament on this supernatural race and historical accounts of these blood-drinking tribes, which introduces an alternate vampire theory. It raises the question - is this semi-supernatural race mythical or not?

What are your writing influences?
Dan Brown, Frank Peretti, Stephanie Meyers, Edgar Allen Poe, Screenwriting, and anything gothic (combining both horror and romance to create a pleasing sort of terror).  I appreciate Dan Brown’s intelligent and lucid thrillers on religious mysteries; however,  I included my research because it’s factual, and it strengthens the argument of a spiritual realm and God.  Frank Peretti’s novels deal with my favorite topic, spiritual warfare.  And although I’m not a fan of Meyers’ writing style, she does craft great, dark romantic relationships.  With Edgar Allen Poe, his stories send chills down my back.  I love authors who provoke the senses and do not bore my intellect.  If I read five sentences explaining the same environment, I get bored, so I don’t do it.  I am a screenwriter, and Sons of God was originally a film script.  So my novel is like a film, the story is visual and keeps moving, no getting waylaid by superfluous descriptions.   Cinematic characters do not have a lot of backstory, but must be figured out by their actions and reactions.  Most readers tell me that the film (mental visuals created while reading the book) continue to play in their heads long after they finish it.

Beyond strictly literary influences, are there any life experiences that factor into this story?
The spiritual realm has always been as real to me as the physical.  At first when demons attacked me, I was always able to spot them and defend myself in the name of Jesus Christ.  The most horrifying assault is actually embedded within Sons of God, but the overall message was one I learned at great cost.  I had always heard of demonic deception, but I didn’t understand it till I lived through it.  For years, my anger at God’s lack of protection during the deception haunted our relationship, but writing Sons of God was cathartic.  Now, I’m receiving messages from Christians who were spiritually healed while reading Sons of God.  Whether from demonic attacks or demonic deception, bitterness and hurt had created a rift - a demon’s purpose, to try and wedge something between us and God.  Sons of God helped some recognize the deception and realize God wasn’t the culprit.  Many Christians are so fearful of even thinking on demons that they do not test the spirits - a warning repeated by the Old Testament prophets, Jesus, Peter and Paul - a warning stressed too many times for Christians not to adhere to.  My recent  conversion to Messianic Judaism has given me a deeper understanding of scriptures and Jewish context from which the N’filim view their world.

What has the reception been to Sons of God so far?
Mixed.  As said, some are being spiritually healed - some admitting that they didn’t even know they were upset with God till reading the novel.  Some have accused me of being overly fascinated with demons and a demon worshipper since I have demons and exorcisms in the novel, but like I said, the message God laid on my heart was dealing with demonic deception.  I shirk this off since Christ was accused himself by religious leaders for exorcising demons and spiritually healing people of scars left from spiritual warfare.  In fact, if you go through all four gospels, you would find that after telling others of the good news, the next most important thing that Jesus told his disciples to do was cast out demons in his name.  It seems that Satan has crafted such a strong fear of even discussing demons within Christianity, that he is winning on the second most given command that Christ gave to us.  One Christian wrote that there are some children of God who no one wants to talk about but all have peace knowing they exist:  those called and aren’t afraid to fight the ugly spiritual battles.

Why did you include your research?   Why did you quote from the Koran?
The Sons of God series reaches out to all religions and nonreligious people.  As most academics would, I see the extra-Biblical texts as supportive and confirming the truth found in the scriptures.  Archaeologists who only find references from one society scoff, but if a semi-supernatural race with similar attributes is recorded in every ancient civilization, it is substantiated as fact.
Furthermore, the Koran texts were chosen as a direct witness to Muslims.  The last long segment from the Koran within the story itself discusses the Jinn’s acceptance of the Koran since it denied the trinity and Jesus.  The Jinn in the Koran are known to be evil and deceptive, jealous of humans and God’s favor, so the fact that the Jinn oddly turn kind is very suspicious and is meant to make Muslim’s pause and think.  Of course Christians do not know this, but not everything has to be for and about Christians in service to God.

Sons of God is listed as a supernatural thriller and mythic fiction.  Why?
The premise of Sons of God is that the N’filim, the descendants of angels and mortals, are the basis of all world mythology.  The novel series include Thor, Loki, Nimrod, Sekhmet, Osiris, Sokar, Mithras, Ishtar, and several more.  Of course, some serve Elohim while others plot to rebuild a strong N’filim army before the Battle of Armageddon to defeat God.  Scholars acknowledge that the Greek gods closely resemble what the Hebrews would call fallen angels living amongst and having children with mortal women.  We still hear tales of Hercules, Medusa, Thor and other half divine heros and villains who survived a great flood.  In Norse mythology, great battles were fought between the gods (fallen angels) and cannibalistic giants before a flood wiped out the giants for the humans to repopulate the earth.  Celtic mythology of the Tuatha de Danaan continues this trend and has documentation for their ancestors originally hailing from the Middle East where tales of the N’filim were first recorded.  In almost every ancient religion there are tales of angel-like/divine creatures mating with humans and/or animals to create their god-kings or a superior semi-divine race worshipped by humans.

Please explain how the Bible supports the existence of vampires.
Both historical and Biblical records recount that humans worshipped a pantheon of gods made up of N’filim and fallen angels.  Most polytheistic religions required human sacrifices and drank the sacrificial blood.  As the Hebrews’ Book of Enoch includes the records of semi-divine entities drinking blood straight from a human, so do many other ancient religions.   In Jewish texts, the post-flood N’filim race has been described as having unnaturally long lives, grew to heights of nine to twelve feet, and had skin much paler than mortals.  Historically, these N’filim tribes were known to drink blood from skulls, flay people alive, and sacrifice babies to demons.  Current archaeological finds further support that drinking blood was common amongst the Canaanite giants.  Therefore, we are presented with an unnaturally long-lived, pale, semi-supernatural tribe known for drinking blood recorded by both ancient civilizations, religious texts, and archaeological finds.  Of course, they were not the undead as in Bram Stroker’s fictional interpretation.  Vampire is an ancient word which simply means blood-drinker.

This is Book One in a five-book series, right? Without giving *too* much away, where is this larger story going?
By the end of the series, the main characters, old covenant N’filim, are permitted by God to partake in the new covenant, but because they’ve seen Biblical history up through modern times as a whole, they have a very different view than modern believers who focus on Graeco-Roman church doctrines for guidance.  The series follows them through pre-flood, the kings and prophets, the diaspora, Mithraism, Jesus and Messianic Judaism, the formation of the Roman Catholic Church, the Protestant Reformation, Jewish Mysticism, Hitler’s Third Reich, the charismatic movement, and modern times.  From a Jewish perspective and through millenniums, God illustrates that he is a jealous God who demands obedience from those who profess to love him.  The N’filim watch as the church falls away from God as did the Hebrews.  As Solomon states, “there is nothing new under the sun.”   Loki, the trickster giant who followed Jesus around, plays an unexpected role as spiritual warfare heats up and occult entities build their army for the ensuing Battle of Armageddon.  The series’ five titles are Sons of God, Nimrod, Thor, Caleb, and Loki.

Post a Story, Win a Book

In an effort to bring together other people that have had personal experiences with the supernatural and/or spiritual warfare (and to spread the word about my book) I have decided to give away a free autographed copy of my book Sons of God to five people who share their own stories in the comments section of this post.

I will get things started by sharing my own story here:

After awaking from a deep sleep, I was overwhelmed with the feeling that I was not alone – someone, or something, was swiftly approaching my bedside. As a pervading sense of evil began to roil my stomach, I turned to Jesus Christ to protect me. I desperately tried to exorcise whatever evil was approaching, only to find that I could not speak as my throat felt as if it was being crushed. I knew that I couldn’t just think the words “blood of Jesus;” I had to speak them out loud. With every attempt to speak more and more pressure would clamp down on my throat. My eyes flew open, and I finally saw my attacker – a large black shadowy figure looming over my body. It had hard angles, a somewhat boxy head and boxy back as if unfurled wings were being held tight to its body, and its arms were pushing down on my throat, crushing my vocal chords. I didn’t know if it was trying to kill me, possess me, or just stop me from speaking the words. My fear quadrupled. Finally, my adrenaline kicked in when my need for oxygen became lethal, and I screeched out “blood of Jesus.” It disappeared. My mom called the next morning, asking why she had awoken shortly after three knowing that she desperately needed to pray for me because my life was in grave danger. I told her. We both got shivers when I told her the time my attack subsided - 3:13.

Make sure you leave a way to be contacted if your entry is chosen.

For those wishing to peruse, here is an article that came out in the Virginian-Pilot.

Due to porn spammers, I had to take down my forum.  Below is a post from the member REK on the forum.  It has not been altered in any way.

Title:  Is Islam Peaceful?

There are so many religions who have strayed from the original teachings of the Master who began said religion.

Humanity is humanity, some people being kind, some being users/abusers, and some just being dogmatic and close-minded.  Each religion has their fill of all types.  I’m a Christian and I think the Crusades were stupid and UNCHRISTIAN!!!!  Religious wars made in the name of Christ is a mockery of Christ’s teachings who taught us to love our enemies.  HOW SHAMEFUL!

So let’s look at a few Masters of some world religions because each religion models itself after the teachings of its Master.  We will overlook the users/abusers of each religion who acted in opposition of how their Master lived and taught for their own personal greed or desires and focus on what each Master taught their followers to do.

Buddha - I don’t believe he killed anyone or told anyone to kill anyone.

Jesus - Told followers to love their enemies.  By his actions, he even healed the soldier who was wounded by Peter (a disciple) when they took Jesus away for trial and crucifixion.  He was a lamb led to the slaughter - a model of pacificism.

Joseph Smith, Jr.  (Mormon) - taught Blood Atonement which said that if someone was waffling in their beliefs that they should be killed before turning their backs on their beliefs so that they could go to heaven.  Shortly after Joseph Smith was murdered  - after the polygamy revelation (which Joseph did not personally condone during his life), the Baptism of the Dead, and the Endowment; his followers who were being attacked moved to Utah and later murdered an entire peaceful pioneer crossing.

Mohammad himself led the first Jihad (religious war).  He added verses to his teachings

Quote

022.039
YUSUFALI: To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid;-
PICKTHAL: Sanction is given unto those who fight because they have been wronged; and Allah is indeed Able to give them victory;
SHAKIR: Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed, and most surely Allah is well able to assist them;

And led 300 Muslims against Meccan merchants.  The Muslims won.  Then the Meccans built up their own army of 3000 and routed the Muslims which Mohammad claimed was lost due to the Muslim’s lack of steadfastness.  Later Mohammad lined up assassinations and a siege on Medina.  When a Jewish tribe began negotiations with the opposing side, Mohammad beheaded all of their men (who would not convert to Islam) and enslaved their women and children.  Henceforth, wars continued (with the same terms and had Christians pay a religious tax) until Mohammad’s farewell speech where he left his disciples with words to love others (too bad he didn’t model his life on that).  After Mohammad’s death, his disciples (truly shocking ) continued jihads beheading anyone who refused to convert or pay a religious tax throughout large portions of Africa, Spain, etc.    Surprisingly, it resurfaced in 2001.  Surprisingly?  What of all the plane hijackings in the 80s?  Or the bombings around the world?

I am not saying that the Mormons or some Muslims are not peaceful now-a-days.  But to say that the entire religion is peaceful when their leader themself taught/modeled their life otherwise?

Response by HunterGatherer:

I really want to borrow a copy of the Koran from the library and just read it for myself. I think every Christian should do this and be familiar with what it is saying. It is the major religious group who is persecuting Christians and we need information as to why they do this.

I had been watching Hashem’s films on YouTube a year ago and then on his own site about the end times. He would quote Jesus’ words and other scriptures in these videos.

A major question that I have is why would someone who is in the Christian church become a Muslim? What is it about that religion that brings people into it voluntarily? I can see how they would get converts when a sword is being placed to one’s neck, but it seems that this religion is growing in the US and other countries where there are no swords involved.

I’m very concerned about persecution and other issues coming from Islam.

Response by Sharath:

Huntergatherer -
My guess is that it is because Islam focuses on attributes of God that many christians today neglect - and because these attributes are part of the innate drive that people have within them to connect with God, people end up deceived into islam and see christianity as irrelevant.
Islam has a strong sense of community.  A strong sense of discipline.  A strong sense of constant focus.  There are prayers to be said upon waking, upon putting clothing on in the morning, upon going to the bathroom, etc, and these are not done as rituals of bondage, but as a joyful remembrance of the Creator in all things.  While christians are Biblically commanded to “do all to the glory of God” and “do all in the name of Jesus”, muslims actually have it woven into the fabric of their culture to actually take every moment of life and speak the name of Allah over it…so islam because a way of life.  Whereas often christianity is presented as a once a day prayer thing (morning devotions.)
Islam also majors on submission.  And humans are wired to want to submit and render themselves to the One who is greater than they.  This stirs peoples’ hearts and souls to venerate Another.  Men enter armies because they feel it a high calling to take their part in a chain of command.  Women are wooed by men who inspire them as leaders.  Male and female are wired to be inspired by submission.  But christianity tends to water down the submission parts of the Bible and so in islam, while you fall on your face 5 times a day before God, in christianity it is the rare church where people fall on their faces and venerate God….

Due to porn spammers, I had to take down my forum.  Below is a post from the member REK on the forum.  It has not been altered in any way.

Title:  Kabbalah versus Cabala

About ten years ago, I did some reading on Kabbalah which is the mystic branch of Judaism.  According to Kabbalah, only a few elite of Jews who are naturally gifted with the mystical realm can be members.  Apparently according to what I read, because too many Jewish mystics were getting seduced into divination, sorcery, and witchcraft; the leaders restricted it to a bare minimum who they believed would not be seduced by their natural sensitivities to the spiritual realm.  I read many of these Jewish writings and noticed that none of their teachings would affect the Christian plan of salvation (well, knowing the Jews do not believe Christ was the Son of God nor altering any other part of Jewish belief pre-New Testament).

However, now we have the rise of Cabala (the nonJewish sect) with celebrities like Madonna, Britney Spears, Demi Moore, Ashton Kutcher, Roseanne Barr, etc getting involved and wearing red strings around their fingers.  Now this nonJewish instigated portion is quite a bit different and raises many negative questions.  I’ve been doing some readings on their beliefs….. hmmm.  Holy water?  from what?  It almost seems to be a commercial religion.  Where are they getting all these new things from? 

Response by HunterGatherer:

Rebecca, there is an Eastern and a Western Kabbalah. The Eastern is the Jewish belief which is different than the Western which originates from Alistair Crowley and added to on down through various people like Dion Fortune. I’ve been trying to study up on this, but it’s like taking a bath in sewer water. The Lord directed me to find out the information, but I confess I have taken a bit of a break on this subject. Perhaps we can do this together and it wouldn’t be so lonely a walk through.

I’ll post things here about it and hope you will do the same. Thanks!

Response by REK:

Sounds good.

It may take me a bit though because I’m in the middle of research for the fourth novel in the series.

Due to porn spammers, I had to take down my forum.  Below is a post from the guest Messenger01 on the forum.  It has not been altered in any way.

When I first received the baptism of the Holy Ghost I had no idea of to what was going on or what I was headed for cause the people that I had talked to about the Holy Ghost made me think that it was jumping around doing this dance and speaking jibber jabber but since going through the actual experience I know better its not. The Comforter is the Holy Ghost which teach us all things pertaining to God. The Comforter(HolyGhost) is called the spirit of truth he reveals the truth to us. And the Holy Ghost do not just hit you and you get in a dance or jibber jabber attitude but the Comforter/Holy Ghost remains with you until redemption granted that you remain Holy and in righteousness. Just thought I would say these things which are true so that many will understand the truth. Oh and by the way many kept saying you have a strong spirit with you I laughed cause I knew it is not a strong spirit but the Holy Ghost and God alone with the angels.

Due to porn spammers, I had to take down my forum.  Below is a post from the member REK on the forum.  It has not been altered in any way.

Title:  When Christians Make Christianity Look Bad

Does it ever make you feel uncomfortable when someone who professes to be a Christian is rude, mean, unloving, judgmental, and close minded?  It does me.  There are so many people who follow the rituals of religion and never truly show themselves of striving to be Christ-like.  That is what Christian means - little models of Jesus running around.   Jesus said himself - ye who are without sin, may cast the first stone (something similar).  Seriously, I would probably say that sarcastically which I doubt Jesus said that way.

Now no one is going to be perfect like Jesus was.  The main word is “strive” to be Christ-like.  Yes, everyone will get mad or agitated from time to time, but do we forgive or ask for forgiveness - admitting we were wrong?

Sometimes I really wish there was a new word for those who actually care to strive to be Christ-like that separated us from all the religious people.  I could say that I am a Child of God, but then there are so many monotheistic religions now-a-days.  Unfortunately, Christianity is already taken.  How about Spirit baptized?  Spiritians?  Holy Spiritians?    Uh… the Enflamed (like the H.S. being a flame indwelling us?) 

You know.  I have researched how many times in the New Testament that someone accepted Christ, was water baptized, then had fellow believers lay hands on the new person and ask for the Holy Spirit’s baptism.  Christ was a modeler.  You know, I believe the apostles were modelers as well.  Perhaps we should follow their model.  I personally know how different it feels when I feel a refilling of the Holy Spirit within me versus when I let so much sin back into my life that the Holy Spirit seems quenched.  Even Paul notes that sin quenches the Holy Spirit.  It makes me think of people who’ve told me that they’ve never felt “saved” or “filled with the Holy Spirit.”

I must say that through my spiritual journey I firmly believe that water baptism is a physical show of one’s faith in Christ and salvation, but I also firmly believe that Holy Spirit baptism does not come with water/physical displays or just simply believing.  God is a trinity.  So is man.  Body, mind, and spirit.  Our mind believes and confesses.  Our body is physically baptized showing the inner cleansing.  Then and hopefully our spirit is baptized/cleansed and filled with the presence of the Holy Spirit.  All three parts covered.

I’ll be surprised if no one argues with me.

Response by ApologeticsWriter:

I agree we need both baptisms. I think we ought to keep the Christian label though, maybe, though I understand your thoughts about that. I just think we can redeem it’s meaning by living and loving the way we ought. If we call ourselves something else it will confuse the world and make them think we are some new religion or something. Also we can’t disassociate with those who still are entrapped in religion for they need freedom and love too to come out of that. I think the most important thing we can show the world is our love for those who we disagree with within the body as well as our love for the unbeliever.

We have to be careful not to fall into becoming religious about religiousness. It all starts with we versus them, it always has to be us. We can have unity without uniformity. God will shake things up one day and the un-shakeable will remain.

I believe people can only know Christianity as a religion and not know Christ at all. Then there are those that do indeed have a personal relationship with Jesus, but are still religious in their thinking. They need the strongholds broken off them, but from my experience only love can reach their hearts and bring them closer to the cross.

Response by HunterGatherer:

Quote from: Rebecca Ellen Kurtz on September 10, 2008, 08:04:21 PM

Sometimes I really wish there was a new word for those who actually care to strive to be Christ-like that separated us from all the religious people.  I could say that I am a Child of God, but then there are so many monotheistic religions now-a-days.  Unfortunately, Christianity is already taken.  How about Spirit baptized?  Spiritians?  Holy Spiritians?    Uh… the Enflamed (like the H.S. being a flame indwelling us?) 

It is so good to come across a forum where people are contemplating the same things that I am. I, too, would like to find a new word to describe people who are kingdom minded and not religious. Jesus actually didn’t come to establish a religion. He came to establish a kingdom and to provide himself as the way into it, as well as show us how to live in the Kingdom. Personally, I don’t like to use the name, “Christian,” either as it brings to mind so many things that give people a marred image as to who Jesus really is.

I believe that something happened at Antioch. It seems to be a turning point from how the early church was in a joyous experience of sharing and being “one” into a lot of religious form. This was where the believers started to be called Christians, and I don’t believe Jesus would have wanted people to be called “little Christs.” That just seems to follow so much in a worldly kind of way of having to have titles and boundaries, etc. I continue to try to get to the bottom of what happened at Antioch and perhaps you, Rebecca, (or others here) may have found information in your researching which reveals just where and how this turning point came about there.

I have been simply calling people, “believers,” who are kingdom minded and seeking a relationship with Jesus. That word doesn’t really encompass the whole of it, but puts some distance in there from the form of religion associated with the name, “Christian.”

We will have to brace ourselves for some really big shake-ups in all that is included in Christianity. Everything that is not of him is going to go. When he is finished with his church, we will not recognize it as being the same because what it is now is so far from what it should be. I look for nearly a total collapse of the structure, although a form may remain as an apostate body. He will measure the temple as in Revelation 11, and I believe this is going to happen soon.

We actually don’t need any more churches–we need a family. So we should not hold onto the institutions and religious form, but be available as a family especially for those who will be devastated when all the “fluff” is scraped off the church. He is strengthening his family outside of the church system so there will be a place for all to take refuge and continue in the true faith.